Comments on: Why Lorelle and the rest of the WP community are getting duped http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/ Making money from a dorm room Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:27:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Todd Harrison - LA Headshot Photography http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/comment-page-1/#comment-12416 Todd Harrison - LA Headshot Photography Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:36:00 +0000 http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/#comment-12416 I had a problem setting up my wordpress I had to hack the theme to get what I wanted. It would not work with the wiget plugin. I do have to agree with what your saying. Their should be a standard that themes should have to meet! I hope this will be fixed in time. I had a problem setting up my wordpress I had to hack the theme to get what I wanted. It would not work with the wiget plugin. I do have to agree with what your saying. Their should be a standard that themes should have to meet! I hope this will be fixed in time.

]]> By: Ryan http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/comment-page-1/#comment-11766 Ryan Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:41:56 +0000 http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/#comment-11766 Here's the solution: Find volunteers (I'd be willing to help) to manually evaluate each theme that's submitted (we're only talking about a few each day) based on conditions of quality. Or even better, have the WP community vote on each theme (does it get to stay or not). To me, it seems like a much wiser decision to discriminate based on theme quality. No criteria for quality? Well consider how art studios select good art, or how dog shows pick best of the breed. While there's a lot of subjectivity involved, when a community is working together to choose quality, they usually succeed. Here’s the solution:

Find volunteers (I’d be willing to help) to manually evaluate each theme that’s submitted (we’re only talking about a few each day) based on conditions of quality. Or even better, have the WP community vote on each theme (does it get to stay or not).

To me, it seems like a much wiser decision to discriminate based on theme quality.

No criteria for quality? Well consider how art studios select good art, or how dog shows pick best of the breed. While there’s a lot of subjectivity involved, when a community is working together to choose quality, they usually succeed.

]]> By: Kyle http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/comment-page-1/#comment-11746 Kyle Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:27:36 +0000 http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/#comment-11746 Better solutions such as what? You've done nothing but bring negativity to this argument with problems and no solutions (other than claiming there is one). Again: <blockquote>Can you honestly come up with an argument that benefits the Wordpress community at large by using an absolute non-personal, non-biased scale? (What qualifies as “spammy”).</blockquote> Better solutions such as what? You’ve done nothing but bring negativity to this argument with problems and no solutions (other than claiming there is one).

Again:

Can you honestly come up with an argument that benefits the WordPress community at large by using an absolute non-personal, non-biased scale? (What qualifies as “spammy”).

]]> By: Ryan http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/comment-page-1/#comment-11740 Ryan Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:22:43 +0000 http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/#comment-11740 To dismantle the "you're motivated by money" counter-argument, let me just put it this way: I make over $6,000 per month. How much of that is from sponsored themes? Nothing. Zilch. I do sponsor themes myself. That's true. But I make sure they are good themes before I sponsor them. But in the grand scheme of things I don't make any direct income from sponsored themes. I work for a company that makes $500 each month off sponsored themes. But all of my arguments here are based on principal. I can assure you of that. I don't like blanket policies. I think they are for simple minded people. Especially when there are better solutions. To dismantle the “you’re motivated by money” counter-argument, let me just put it this way: I make over $6,000 per month. How much of that is from sponsored themes? Nothing. Zilch. I do sponsor themes myself. That’s true. But I make sure they are good themes before I sponsor them. But in the grand scheme of things I don’t make any direct income from sponsored themes. I work for a company that makes $500 each month off sponsored themes. But all of my arguments here are based on principal. I can assure you of that.

I don’t like blanket policies. I think they are for simple minded people. Especially when there are better solutions.

]]> By: Ryan http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/comment-page-1/#comment-11739 Ryan Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:17:30 +0000 http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/#comment-11739 Kyle, I did not edit your comments. I never edit comments and I never delete comments (unless they are spammy - something I can clearly distinguish, but apparently the WP community can not?) Spammy is when you have links to about 5 porn sites, or 10 insurance sites in the footer of a theme. What's not spammy, is when someone is launching a new service (e.g. Tubetorial) and wants to commission a high-quality theme (e.g. Cutline) to help promote that service. I don't think it is any different than a company sponsoring a quality TV program or a Baseball park. "The entirety of your arguments revolves around assumptions (that Matt is partnering with Google or Matt Cutts, for example), completely unfounded claims, and insults." This is actually a mistake. My argument is simple: Not all sponsored themes are spammy themes. Some sponsored themes are very good themes. Good themes benefit the WordPress community. That's the argument. Now you can focus all your energy on my admitted ad homs and speculations, or you can address my argument. I stand by the argument, since some of the best themes have been sponsored themes, we should not ban all sponsored themes but should find a better, more sophisticated solution. Blanket solutions are for simple minded people. I don't think the WP community is simple minded. But I do think they've been misled by simple minded people. Kyle,
I did not edit your comments. I never edit comments and I never delete comments (unless they are spammy – something I can clearly distinguish, but apparently the WP community can not?)

Spammy is when you have links to about 5 porn sites, or 10 insurance sites in the footer of a theme.

What’s not spammy, is when someone is launching a new service (e.g. Tubetorial) and wants to commission a high-quality theme (e.g. Cutline) to help promote that service. I don’t think it is any different than a company sponsoring a quality TV program or a Baseball park.

“The entirety of your arguments revolves around assumptions (that Matt is partnering with Google or Matt Cutts, for example), completely unfounded claims, and insults.”

This is actually a mistake. My argument is simple: Not all sponsored themes are spammy themes. Some sponsored themes are very good themes. Good themes benefit the WordPress community.

That’s the argument. Now you can focus all your energy on my admitted ad homs and speculations, or you can address my argument.

I stand by the argument, since some of the best themes have been sponsored themes, we should not ban all sponsored themes but should find a better, more sophisticated solution.

Blanket solutions are for simple minded people. I don’t think the WP community is simple minded. But I do think they’ve been misled by simple minded people.

]]> By: Kyle http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/comment-page-1/#comment-11671 Kyle Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:10:15 +0000 http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/#comment-11671 Ryan, I'm pretty sure you edited your comment after I posted. You asked "Who exactly?" I responded with who exactly -- the Wordpress community. Elaboration: You are at war with the Wordpress community (they chose to ban sponsored themes). And the Wordpress community are the ones who make sponsored themes profitable. Hence, you rely on them. The entirety of your arguments revolves around assumptions (that Matt is partnering with Google or Matt Cutts, for example), completely unfounded claims, and insults. Blanket policies are often most fair. For example, speeding is illegal. It's not illegal for some people: it's illegal for everyone. Even though most roads are more than capable of handling higher speeds, especially in the hands of better drivers and high-performance cars. Can you honestly come up with an argument that <strong>benefits the Wordpress community at large</strong> by using an absolute non-personal, non-biased scale? (What qualifies as "spammy"). We don't post speed limits for what kind of car and driver you are: we post an absolute number. Ryan, I’m pretty sure you edited your comment after I posted. You asked “Who exactly?” I responded with who exactly — the WordPress community.

Elaboration: You are at war with the WordPress community (they chose to ban sponsored themes). And the WordPress community are the ones who make sponsored themes profitable. Hence, you rely on them.

The entirety of your arguments revolves around assumptions (that Matt is partnering with Google or Matt Cutts, for example), completely unfounded claims, and insults.

Blanket policies are often most fair. For example, speeding is illegal. It’s not illegal for some people: it’s illegal for everyone. Even though most roads are more than capable of handling higher speeds, especially in the hands of better drivers and high-performance cars.

Can you honestly come up with an argument that benefits the WordPress community at large by using an absolute non-personal, non-biased scale? (What qualifies as “spammy”). We don’t post speed limits for what kind of car and driver you are: we post an absolute number.

]]> By: Ryan http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/comment-page-1/#comment-11653 Ryan Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:47:53 +0000 http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/#comment-11653 "You’ve made a point, not an argument." No, I've made an argument by counterexample simply by pointing out that not all sponsored themes are bad and that in fact some of the best themes are sponsored themes. One version of the argument is this: If some sponsored themes are good, and some are bad, then we should choose a filtering criteria besides "sponsored theme" to distinguish which themes to accept and which not to accept. That's all I'm asking. My argument is for compromise: you've identified the wrong criteria, now let's fix it. What you should focus on is weeding out spammy themes, which are a subset of sponsored themes. Instead, you've taken the blanket approach (which I call the lazy approach). “You’ve made a point, not an argument.”

No, I’ve made an argument by counterexample simply by pointing out that not all sponsored themes are bad and that in fact some of the best themes are sponsored themes. One version of the argument is this:

If some sponsored themes are good, and some are bad, then we should choose a filtering criteria besides “sponsored theme” to distinguish which themes to accept and which not to accept.

That’s all I’m asking. My argument is for compromise: you’ve identified the wrong criteria, now let’s fix it.

What you should focus on is weeding out spammy themes, which are a subset of sponsored themes. Instead, you’ve taken the blanket approach (which I call the lazy approach).

]]> By: Lorelle http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/comment-page-1/#comment-11647 Lorelle Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:19:22 +0000 http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/#comment-11647 You've made a point, not an argument. First, define "sponsored" Themes. One link, even two links, may not qualify. Themes paid for by a company which include a link to the company and the designer, or one or the other, may or may not qualify. A Theme stuffed with inappropriate links and ads does qualify. We still do not have a clear definition of what qualifies as a sponsored Theme for inclusion on WordPress official sites. Second, one Theme is not justification of the action. Your statement that the world is a better place with sponsored Themes does not mean anything. There are plenty of non-sponsored Themes which are brilliant and lovely, and others ugly (in my opinion) but people love them. There are all kinds of Themes so saying one particular one justifies a rule for all Themes doesn't make sense. It's opinion that judges "good" Themes. And this isn't the issue of the debate. Third, if this was such an issue for you, why didn't you fight harder, publicize the issue more, and be more definitive in your support (I'm still looking for support for your argument in your writings - and I read them thoroughly) for inclusion of sponsored Themes while this was an open debate. After the decision is a tough way to get something changed. Participation in the decision process is when things change. Again, I'm looking for calm, rational discussions on the issue that are supported by evidence and clear opinion. That is not an insult to your intelligence. Such a claim implies personal knowledge and experience. I have none. This issue is obviously personal to you and I know not why. The members of the WordPress Community, especially the users, let Matt and others know how they felt about sponsored Themes and he made a decision, as is his right. I voted. Did you? The community voted, and while some countries don't honor the vote, Matt is doing his best to make sure that it counts with WordPress. You’ve made a point, not an argument.

First, define “sponsored” Themes. One link, even two links, may not qualify. Themes paid for by a company which include a link to the company and the designer, or one or the other, may or may not qualify. A Theme stuffed with inappropriate links and ads does qualify. We still do not have a clear definition of what qualifies as a sponsored Theme for inclusion on WordPress official sites.

Second, one Theme is not justification of the action. Your statement that the world is a better place with sponsored Themes does not mean anything. There are plenty of non-sponsored Themes which are brilliant and lovely, and others ugly (in my opinion) but people love them. There are all kinds of Themes so saying one particular one justifies a rule for all Themes doesn’t make sense. It’s opinion that judges “good” Themes. And this isn’t the issue of the debate.

Third, if this was such an issue for you, why didn’t you fight harder, publicize the issue more, and be more definitive in your support (I’m still looking for support for your argument in your writings – and I read them thoroughly) for inclusion of sponsored Themes while this was an open debate. After the decision is a tough way to get something changed. Participation in the decision process is when things change.

Again, I’m looking for calm, rational discussions on the issue that are supported by evidence and clear opinion. That is not an insult to your intelligence. Such a claim implies personal knowledge and experience. I have none. This issue is obviously personal to you and I know not why.

The members of the WordPress Community, especially the users, let Matt and others know how they felt about sponsored Themes and he made a decision, as is his right. I voted. Did you? The community voted, and while some countries don’t honor the vote, Matt is doing his best to make sure that it counts with WordPress.

]]> By: Ryan http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/comment-page-1/#comment-11624 Ryan Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:07:49 +0000 http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/#comment-11624 Kyle. I asked for elaboration. This is another insult to my intelligence. Seems to be quite common from the WP community these days. Do you think I don't read what you've already written? Who is it that I rely on? Who? Tell me please. Kyle. I asked for elaboration. This is another insult to my intelligence. Seems to be quite common from the WP community these days.

Do you think I don’t read what you’ve already written?

Who is it that I rely on? Who? Tell me please.

]]> By: Kyle http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/comment-page-1/#comment-11601 Kyle Wed, 18 Jul 2007 04:02:50 +0000 http://www.college-startup.com/blogging/why-lorelle-and-the-rest-of-the-wp-community-is-getting-duped/#comment-11601 Well, to re-quote myself: <blockquote>You should be attacking the Wordpress users who have voted to have sponsored themes removed. If 4/5 of America voted to outlaw cowboy boots: we’d outlaw them. The problem is that you are at war with the very people you rely on.</blockquote> Well, to re-quote myself:

You should be attacking the WordPress users who have voted to have sponsored themes removed. If 4/5 of America voted to outlaw cowboy boots: we’d outlaw them. The problem is that you are at war with the very people you rely on.

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